Testimony (what God thinks about suffering) University of Manchester C.U.
This testimony was shared at Manchester University C.U in 2004
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The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
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Introduction
Three sons left home, went out on their own and prospered. Getting back together, they discussed the gifts they were able to give their elderly mother.
The first said: "I built a big house for our mother."
The second said: "I sent her a Mercedes with a driver."
The third said: "You remember how Mum loved reading the Bible. Now she can't see very well. So I sent her an amazing parrot that recites the entire Bible. It took elders in the church 12 years to teach him, he's one of a kind. Mum just has to name the chapter and verse and the parrot recites it."
Soon after, Mum sent out her letters of thanks ...
"Simon," she said, "the house you built is so huge. I only live in one room, but I have to clean the whole house."
"Gerald," she said, "That chauffer is so rude! I am too old to travel anyway. I stay at home most of the time, I rarely use the Mercedes.
"And my dearest, Donald," she said, "the chicken was delicious!"
Swimming at the Lazy River complex in Lisburn, Northern Ireland - disaster!
Disability can be so frustrating, when you just want to be normal, to swim with your kids, instead your swimming trunks come down!
What does God think about suffering?
Two weeks ago (Tuesday) 'Brian, taxi Driver - recently diagnosed with cancer, prognosis is not good….. 'I Dont believe in Jesus?' - my wife is a Catholic. On Tuesday, he went to church and lit a candle when he heard about his cancer but still doesn’t believe in him. What does God think about suffering?
Last Thursday Julie.. 21 yr old friend killed car accident - 'It shouldn’t happen to Christians.'
On Sunday Carl 22.. His girlfriend wanted to split.. he didn’t. What does God think about suffering?
What picture of Jesus have we painted for people around us. Stained Glas window Jesus, white middle class Jesus. Jesus of Nazareth 2000 yrs ago. What kind of picture of Jesus have we got for ourselves. Alive, present, ever present help in times of trouble. And does your Jesus live within you and surround you, Eph 1v6 do you belong to him (is he your Lord). People's picture of Jesus today is based on the Jesus we share with them through our words and actions
Question: Where is God in the suffering?
There are many different kinds of suffering. People are hurting and need something, somewhere or someone to turn to for healing or comfort or support. By and large, it is not the church they turn to.
The word spirituality is the "in" word, but ‘Christian’ or worse still ‘Jesus Christ’ are not words people associate with spirituality, healing, suffering, comfort or support.
It is so frustrating because spirituality, healing, comfort or support is what we've been doing through Jesus Christ for the last 2000 years.
Instead I meet people like [Tracy & Pete both with church backgrounds (SS) are looking at the world of wiccans, the she god of mother earth (cause 'its not so narrow, it encompasses more that Christianity.']
Looking around me I see endless dieting, plastic surgery for everything, courses for meditation, mysticism, healing, predicting (prophecy) [tarrot cards, stars, asrtology] Therepy, searching for healing.. people are suffering/hurting & desperate for healing [Body Mind Spirit]
It is so frustrating because spirituality, meditation, healing, prophecy or therapy/support is what we've been doing through Jesus Christ for the last 2000 years.
And in Jesus Christ we our Lord God who suffered for our sakes, he died in our place, he was tested in every way as we could be he is the God who experienced suffering 1st hand.
The theology from the cross suggests that although God is almighty and all powerful he chose through Jesus Christ to be vulnerable (child & cross), defenceless (child and cross), and to suffer (trial and cross - Passion of the Christ).
God chose to embrace and to know suffering 1st hand.
We can never accuse God of not knowing what it's like to suffer. The all-knowing Almighty God knows suffering 1st hand.
So why does he allow us to go through suffering.
Is it to make us better, stronger understanding people - maybe, sometimes but not always.
Is it to demonstrate his healing power and sovereign control over nature - maybe, sometimes but not often.
Is it cause He's up there and we're down here & we are left like orphans with random things going wrong in random lives - an accident to one a terminal illness to another - I don’t think so. There is a view of God that he was like a watch maker who made the world and creatures with the ability to procreate & he disappeared into the heavens and has left us to it down here. No!
If the all-knowing Almighty creator God chose to create human beings he had to create beings with freedom of choice (otherwise we would not be human)
And in loving human beings with a special love he had to take the risk that we may choose to not love Him in return. That makes my God vulnerable, a God who takes risks. He may desire the best for his humans, desiring that our days would be long, that we would be healthy and accident free. BUT freedom means, people drive cars fast, cars break down, diseases come, Freedom means suffering happens and I believe the vulnerable almighty God grieves over our accidents, and illnesses and traumas. Longing that we will turn to him for strength and courage, turn to Him for healing and peace BUT freedom means we may choose to not to turn to Him. Yes I believe God is weeping with those who weep.
So why does he not just make it all better, all perfect.
To do that would contradict what it means to be human and for humanity to have free choice. Bonhoffer's letters 16/7/44 'God lets himself be pushed out of the world on to the cross. He is weak and powerless in the world and that is precisely the way in which he is with us and helps us…. The bible directs (people) to God's powerlessness and suffering: only the suffering God can help' 9/4/45 Executed by the Gestapo 'DB a witness for Jesus Christ'
30/4/45 Hitler Kills himself; 8/5/45 Victory for Europe (VE Day)
How people respond to suffering is crucial
Joni initially found it impossible to reconcile her condition with a loving God. It seemed all God's gifts she had as an active teenager were taken from her. What was the reason, 'why me?'
Gradually turning to God through 3 years of tears. Until finally one night she became convinced God did understand because of the cross.
From then she chose not to question why but to live for he Lord - radiate for Him…. God can turn every adversity into a victory 1 Cor 15v25 'he must reign till all enemies have been put under foot.. Heb 12v1 tell us we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses (heavenlies..)
Testimony
Intro testimony - Vicar St A's. Chtd Acct. Jen. 3 Kids. Been a Vian nearly 40yrs..
1> Boy .. (2nd coming of Christ)… Christian home - mother prayed for sick……
Boy 10 follows Christ… stuck with me thro school things vying to take central place. Thro life I’ve walked this kind of tight rope enjoying having friendships and a life outside church and Christians. [Remember Ena KB Going Golfing ‘Be ye separate.’ But I read John 17 and I hear Jesus asking the father these words: ‘my prayer is not that you will take them out of the world…’ Thro life I’ve walked this kind of tight rope – mixing it with FRANC. Sport (N Ireland Cap), thro Uni (NI juniors) . Enjoyed mixing it with students/people who didn’t believe.. Studies (sharpened faith) thro sport Hockey to Trainee Acct [tight rope walk was to Keep V central]. Everything All going well work, sport, girls, ££. (leisure pleasure Treasure)
2>Bottom fell out of world - Car Crash.: ‘I am with you always’ (Matt 28:20) Holding on.
3>Questions/anger/close encounters
4>The Business. Integrity v compromise [Gerrysa/c’s] [Gordon’s death ]
5>The call & the challenge. Matt 28v19 ‘Go & tell’ Tell your story – tell what V means to you, tell how he has changed your life, tell how you have a peace, tell how he forgave you, tell how he takes your burdens of life and gives you life in abundance.
Question: Suffering, who caused it?
Sometimes when we are going through hard times we get a bit fuzzy on who Jesus is or where he is in the midst of suffering. When we're fuzzy about him we need to be clear about 2 big facts [1](He didn’t do it!). He is never the author of evil and [2.] He hasn’t abandoned you! (if you are a believer) He is always with you and 'greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world.' When we get fuzzy we need to get re-focussed on who you are in God's family and who the evil one is. God Eph. 1 God blesses us …. v1 The evil one John 10v10 comes to steal and destroy….' That's his nature & character….Jesus says I have come to give you life and to give it in all of it's fullness…..Be clear about that when suffering comes your way, God is never the author of evil. When there's a destructive force impacting your life, I know whose work that was and it wasn’t God's……... It's VIP for you to be clear about that.
[Car crash][lake of tears].
When Eph 1 v 7 deliverance comes & Eph 1v8 forgiveness / 2nd chance/ someone blesses you or encourages you or serves you…I know who is behind that. You need to be clear about who is the author of what and who is within you particularly when you are suffering or going thro hard times.
That 2nd thing again when you get fuzzy about God in the hard times is remember this 'I will never leave you..' Matt 28v20 - the temptation is to believe you are on your own, alone. [Hospital card] Ps 34v18 'God is especially near to the broken hearted.' Ps 23 thro the valley of the shadow of death I am with you.' 'Come unto me ..weary heavy burdened… rest' - The one who said to the storms peace be still… can say to the storms of your live…
John 14 My peace I give you ….
God understands and cares… when you're getting fuzzy about God re-focus thro Eph 1 v3-14 (v6 His wonderful kindness to us...) [We are his family….Gives us good things.. tender…loving]
Who is this Jesus for you? Are you ready to back up your answer with your life. If you say he is Lord of Lords. Are you ready to back it up with your life. Allow him to rule every area of your life. No partitions [God partition/real world partition). If you say he is God's son are you prepared to accept his words that He is the way - no one comes… or that he has come that you may have life… or that God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son.. s/n/perish but have everlasting life…
I don’t know how you are reacting to this Jesus but I believe he calls us to worship our God our redeemer, Father, Son and Spirit. [Illustr - few weeks back s.one came to me at church saying didn’t like the songs we were singing. How can we sing these 'slushy' Jesus songs when my life is in turmoil and the world is at war?']. [Robbie Williams CD 'Sing when you're winning']. I agree with (Job) 'tho he slays me still I'll trust him' praise be continually in my mouth [Pinderfields hospital Huddersfield Christian lady.. depressed - praise.]
Israelites asked the same question 'By the rivers of babylon… how can we sing the Lords song…' Then they did just that - they sang the Lords song in that strange land….
If ever we needed a lesson on how to respond to adversity here it is . Praise at all times. Sing his praise when it doesn’t make sense.
Ques? Why is there such a thing as Pain?
Why is there such a thing as pain. Some pain serves a good purpose [KB nearly lost 3 toes in 1990 thro lack of feeling/pain - scalding] pain is essential. Sounds daft but the brain sends important messages thro pain….
Society prefers to classify pleasure as something done to you (a roller coaster ride), something you take (a reef, sniff a line) a quick fix.
But there is also pleasure in striving, such as training for something, pushing yourself to the limits, enduring suffering to get to the mountain top to triple jump (Jonathan Edwards, Johnny Wilkinson)
It's a picture of winning over adversity, it's also a picture of how God can turn every adversity into a victory 1 Cor 15v25 'he must reign till all enemies have been put under foot..
Hebrews 12v1 tell us we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses (heavenlies..)
Discussion Questions
Pause for 1 minute to think about one incident or time of loss or suffering you have experienced. (Eg Coming to Uni (leaving home), parent/grandparent/ sibling death, pet loss, injury through accident or suffering thro illness.)
In 2's or 3's share your story and listen to the other stories. If you had a faith then talk about how your faith sustained you (or didn’t) through that time. If you didn’t have a faith then talk about the effect the experience of loss had on you.
Finally talk about this experience of sharing the story. If it seems appropriate pray with eachother.
And/or
Can pain and suffering serve a good purpose? (eg character building, glorifying God, to demonstrate God's miraculous work….etc) Discuss. Read this brief sattement and discuss : "There can be pleasure in striving, such as training for something, pushing yourself to the limits, enduring suffering to get to the mountain top or the triple jump Gold (Jonathan Edwards).
Something about winning over adversity, and of how God can turn every adversity into a victory 1 Cor 15v25 'he must reign till all enemies have been put under foot..
Hebrews 12v1 tell us we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses (heavenlies..) - discuss.
If it seems appropriate pray with each other.
